52 posts of pure garbage, come back when you got game....:doh:

More like come back when your doc gets your meds straightened out. :stupid: Or better yet, just disappear.

So what you are saying is that you would just bend over and take it in the ass, while they took your fishing spots from you?
My guess is that this is not the first time you have bent over to take something in the A--:puke:


Welcome to the board Stan, I fish Dana a good amount. Its decent there. I hope to fish with you one day there, :reeling:

Bring your fly rod and your busted fishfinder.
Seriously....

For the record, Steveooo was in on this thread before it was locked 2x :cheers1:

Sitting here remembering that list I was taught in class...
"The list of fallacious arguments"... Stan the man reeks of them...

one of the most common:
Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man): attacking the person instead of attacking his argument.
For example, "Stan's fews about MLPA's are worthless because he is an asshole" (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

Only on the super friendly site of BWE could this guy go on for so long...



P.S.
Stan,
sorry for being unfriendly... But I really think you are an asshole:the_finger:

Stan, you are incredible...the old saying, hook, line, and sinker...let's review and follow this rant... (though we all know at this point it is to no avail...)

First of all, you had bad wording from the get go (think spellcheck).
If you misread Rob's quote, that would be on you. I was merely pointing the obvious facts, had you been there you would have seen it for yourself.

Next....

Also, had you read between the lines, you would have surely noticed the reference of my Son having respect for his elders...hmmm...yet you call Dorado an 'old man'?

Next...

Reefs cost money, more areas to debate? Are you serious? Did you see where the BRTF got to stay, catered lunches, dinners, and do you think they were doing all of that gratis? That serious $ could've been spent elsewhere, oh, gee, maybe increase funding for the DFG?

Now that is a concept. Increase presence, less poachers...sure you have an argument, er, disagreement with that though...

Next...

Selective reading, putting words in your mouth? Wow...denial is not a river in Eqypt. You came on here wanting to be informed of the whole process, folks did their best to enlighten you, yet here, 20 some odd posts later, you are an expert and formulated your own opinion just by doing some research.

Selective reading indeed...

Next...

Nice threat, now you're the bad guy? You came on asking for help to understand this mayhem, it was given, even offered via PM or picking up the phone, you seem to have entirely mislead us of your knowledge and data stored based on how quick your responses were, so now you want to come across as the victim, whoa is me, they are picking on me since I just asked a simple question.

And to touch on that,

It makes our anecdotes of us being "reasonable" at the meetings realy trustworthy?

Stan, check your spelling among other things. We have been reasonable and tolerant of not only this whole process, but you in general.

Not once did we try to deceive you. Talk about trustworthy.

Funny though, knew all along you would not be able to read between the lines.

Respect is earned, not given, and you have clearly demonstrated a lack of respect.

And true to form, you bit...:sifone:

Let me make this statement. From the time that the MLPA was dug back up from the dust covered shelves in the capital, and brought back to haunt the this generation of fisherman I have always been curious as to why the first course of action to encourage growth rates of pelagics, such as yellowtail, would not be taken into consideration before a complete closure was deemed the best option. The top option that should have and maybe or maybe not considered is to limit the keep of such species. For example in the white seabass restoration project, which I am sure you know about, is the perfect example for a successful restoration project. There is an obvious boom in populations presently and if you dont believe me heres some numbers for you page 33(http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/wsfmp/pdfs/wsfmp.pdf). If the take was restricted and length limits or slot limits were enforced would that not allowing for adequate breeding aged fish, boosting fish populations simply by increasing a certain species biomass in any ecosystem.
Is that not a valid reason to question the MLPA? To go to the most extreme restriction while spending 30 -40 million dollars a year to fund this program isn't that strange as well. Our government is corrupted there is no doubt about that. Who is getting the short end of the stick? The fisherman who are out there for sport while at the same time using the resources given them for their family who are spending their days stuck making enough to buy a kayak while keeping their family safe and have enough money to send off to our politicians who are are making this country more and more in debt with each breathe I take. Some of us don't make the same amount of money as are "trusted" politicians. So who in this day and age has the swing in the vote. If I stepped up to a podium at the capital and said my peace and during my speech Sigourney Weaver shakes her head in disagreement who is going to have the greater influence. Now to say this analogy is absurd is false in several meetings this is exactly what is going on. With many members appointed in the regional stakeholder group (RSG), a science advisory team (SAT), the California Department of Fish and Game, MLPA Initiative staff, the public and a policy-level blue ribbon task force (BRTF) simply in their head passing off fisherman public comments because they don't have a fancy title to show importance. So I ask you MLPA supporters, in this debate what is fair? To shut off local saltwater fishing (the productive areas of course), or to limit it. Both we assume to have the same results the only concern is time. Sure it may take longer, but if you keep both sides happy is not more productive than pleasing one side and having anarchy and resentment within your community?

Black, pink, and green abalone?

They were not overfished, they were overpoached!

Nor Cal has a slot limit, with seasons, limit of daily take, and max per year.
The ab population in Nor Cal is very healthy, as is the urchin population (missed that one).

Had there been strict regulations of take, which I am certain would've helped, and better enforcement, we could still be getting them.

Do some research on poachers who have gotten caught with abalone for transport out of this country, see how many times they were caught, then come back again when you want some more...

As far as BSB, wow...grasping at straws there Stan...maybe because they are slow growers who get to massive size, friendly, and generally lethargic creatures is the reason they are protected. That and the fact that if you don't take great care in releasing them they could die might be another...

Go ahead, do your research, sure you will have a rebuttal for this too...

BTW, take is still 1 per day in Mexico waters, please start firing off some rants and facts to the Mexican fisheries on that one.

WSB? Funding...hmm...fishing license revenue, fishing tournaments, awareness, outreach, all have helped the rebound of these fish. These same people that catch stock, help with the program, donate their time, monitor and care for the fish want them to thrive...why do you think that is Stan?

BTW Stan, do you even own a kayak?

I may be wrong, but I think I have it figured out...

Did your mommy tell you to go play on the freeway one too many times?

lmao -

You're a funny guy stan.
Did you shoot dope before you posted on this thread ?

Cowcod If i remeber right are off limits to take... so thats ones solved. And if you were a kayak fisherman youd know damn well the Black Sea Bass arent endangered, those are also off limits to take so problem solved there.

Dont think anyone here has caught any Abalone from there kayak... thats right becuase they restrict the take on those too And they dont take fin bait...:biggrinjester:
The rockfish Fisheries are just fine. and the kayak take of those specieies mentiond is very small (less than a ton a year statewide)

Stealhead? those are endanrged due to damning the rivers and turning them into drainage systems for farming irrigation. Whats funny is there used to be Stealhead ay the rivermouth here in Dana point. they destroyed the san juan river. so no more stealhead. no MLPA is going to bring that back...

So there you ago, any other endangered species? many of thsoe rockfish species are caught well outide the MLPA map zones anyways so the MLPA doesnt help them either.

You still have no case! :biggrinjester:

Maybe if we give this guy a Joint and a Guitar hell go away. :biggrinjester:

Stan, why so much flip-flopping?????

Remember this thread you started?

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56


san diegito lagoon/river?
<hr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" size="1"> anyone take a yak to fish in there? any luck?

-----------------------------------------

deepdvr
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Carlsbad
Posts: 221




All this info is on the DFG website. There are maps as well:

Existing Marine Protected Areas in California: Regulations



<table width="100%" border="1"><tbody><tr><th width="33%" align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc">San Diego County </th> <th width="34%" align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"> SPECIES PROHIBITED For Recreational Take </th> <th width="33%" align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc"> SPECIES ALLOWED For Recreational Take </th> </tr> <tr> <td>Buena Vista Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)
</td> <td>Kelp
</td> <td>Marine aquatic plants EXCEPT kelp; Invertebrates in designated times and in designated areas; Finfish by hook and line during designated times and in designated areas
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Agua Hedionda Lagoon State Marine Reserve (estuarine)
</td> <td>All
</td> <td>None
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Batiquitos Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish by hook and line from shore
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Encinitas State Marine Conservation Area
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Cardiff-San Elijo State Marine Conservation Area
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates EXCEPT chiones, clams, cockles, rock scallops, native oysters, crabs, lobster, ghost shrimp, sea urchins, mussels, and marine worms¹
</td> <td>Chiones, clams, cockles, rock scallops, native oysters, crabs, lobster, ghost shrimp, sea urchins, mussels, and marine worms¹; Finfish
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>San Elijo Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish by hook and line from shore
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>San Dieguito Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish by hook and line from shore and the Grand Avenue Bridge
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>San Diego-Scripps State Marine Conservation Area
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>La Jolla State Marine Conservation Area
</td> <td>All
</td> <td>None
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mia J. Tegner State Marine Conservation Area
</td> <td>All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates
</td> <td>Finfish</td></tr></tbody></table>

-------------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




Booo!

-------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




bummer...is the san diego river outlet off limits too?

---------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




I just want a winter sight fishing spot once the corbina take off.



It's all about you isn't it Stan. You're a freakin hypocrite. :you_rock:

But it is important to discuss that because the fact is our leaders are making decisions for all of us. To say that it serves for republicans who gives a shit. However the decisions made should be made to serve the community justice not one side or the other. Did you know more tax dollars are spent on prisons than education? Who the hell allowed that to happen. hmmmm oh yeah government officials. So to deny the importance of acknowledging a dollar based decision process within our government is being ignorant.
p.s. im not a tea party supporter

COWCOD ARE PROTECTED,you cant keep them, says in the info you provided! we arent misinformed you are

but do you really think it serves a profitable purpose

No becuase those Lagoons are not allowed to be included in the MPA becuase they are man made, And i remember something that had to do with Polution. At the Laguna meeting I talked about this with a guy who was apart of some Steelhead project and he wanted to protect the Aliso beach river spot and wanted to see if it would be included in the MPA. Based on all 3 maps it wasnt, the cosures stopped there. Thats why there is no fishing piers included in these MPA reserves :biggrinjester:

Stealhead migrations arent known once they leave the rivers? Well thats becuase there is no stealhead! And there is no more rivers! the MLPA wont fix either of those problems. How can you not understand that? I asked for exmaples of stealhead fish species in the Southern Section. Steelhead are largely near extinct becuase well, there is no rivers for them to spawn... Of course there is no way to track there migrations, especially in southern California. the MLPA plays no part in that issue


NOAA has no way of tracking Kayakfishing Catch #s. thats my point.... Its largely pennys comparend to commercial or sport boat fishing. We are talking about Kayakfishing here buddy. the NOAA will give you nothing in that form of imformation, only specualtions.
The MPA doesnt extend protection to the Juvenile rockfish, any more than what protection they have today.
Humboldt Squid have more to do with low rockfish Numbers than recreational fishing...If you knew how much those little rockfish those Squid eat, You regulating the squid on what they eat. Good luck on that one.

Your saying poachers cant poach if they cant go to the protected Abalone in the MPA, As if someone is going to be there watching... There no enforcement, theres no plans or funding for any enforcement of these Reserves, and Poachers will Poach Regardless of the any MPA... So you MPA reserve Bouys wont stop the bad guys.

Off topic

\


acually the prisons cost so much becuase of the Prison Gaurds Union. That was Jerry Brown, he did that one some Eons ago.. :biggrinjester:

The guys getting thrown into prison for Pot are the big pushers or illegal smugglers... Not the average guy with a dime sack. :D Jail and Prison are completely differant. If your smuggling out of country thats Federal offense. the states prop 19 wont save that guy.


Way off topic.

LMAO.

This Stan guy personifies the cliche of an attention-seeking troll. What's amazing is the mod allowed him to carry on this long.

First he pretended to ask a question. Then he egged everyone into arguing with partisan drivels that show his true color.

He recited his party line well, I grant him that. What's telling is none of his points are original--zero evidence of original thinking. The same ka-ka we all heard before and dealt with when it mattered except it's clumsily delivered here.

He doesn't care how much of an asshat he's coming across with this audience because he basks in the glow of negative attention he created. Beat him down with logic, and all that was accomplished was wasted time and winning against an idiot.

This is when some mod action would be highly useful so this site can get back to its mission of serving kayakfishermen.

I cant use that poll info that you provided to justify your reasoning. it is biased in my opinion. But 7% of tax dollars spent on education really versus 11% for prisons? anyways lets leave that one out back to topic

conservation in the end is encouraging a bountiful ocean which in turn profits those who seeks to harvest from it and that's what the MLPA and such acts like it are doing they are ensuring future profit. But the method, MLPA, used to accomplish it is rash when there are better methods to accomplish the same goal.

stan, guess you have no idea who the sophists were. ought to investigate that one. might have a moment of self discovery. (not that this ought to be a maslow moment for you though. I'm pretty sure you've achieved that already!!)

ok, I'll give up the ghost. sophists were pre-socratics in ancient greece (socrates was accused of being one, though he rejected them), who argued for the sake of arguing, could take any side and argue indefinitely, without facts or evidence, "winning" as much as by taking apart their opponents arguments rather than constructing one of their own. they would use rhetorical tricks to gain the upper hand. rather than reaching a logical conclusion based on facts, evidence, and reason, they instead would show how an opponent made a mistake or something and thus, "win". yes, they were hated, cf the clouds. also, truth was relative (i.e. man is the measure of all things) and something that could change or existed in one mind different from another. in fact, there was no truth, simply what one thought to be, was.

even the ancients knew the to be what we so eloquently refer to as, bullshit artists.

Which fishery?

The whole point of my response was to point out the flaws in the "factual evidence". One flawed study should not be enough to convince anyone. And, I can assure you that non-results do not get published in top-tier journals. Science also has a definite editorial bent (like all journals). You have far too much faith in experts. Scientists are human, and have personal conflicts and biases, just like everyone else. That doesn't make them evil. Scrutinize the data. Don't just trust the experts.

Shouldn't the burden of proof be on those that are trying to change the rules?

For one thing, the data are much better for relatively small, relatively closed systems like freshwater lakes and streams.



I'm not surprised that the discussion devolved into ranting and name calling. I just wanted to point out that you started it. Too bad really, as I'm trying to learn more about the MLPA process as well.

this poll that you used i found another part you forgot to mention. the same organization that did this study also said this.

"The Alliance of Communities for Sustainable Fisheries (ACSF) has released the results of a national public opinion poll revealing the public’s attitudes about ocean conservation which found that the public strongly wants the ocean to be protected, but not with total marine closures.

Respondents expressed a reluctance to place the ocean off limits to human use if those areas and the resources can be used sustainably. The public does support placing areas off limits to all human use, but only if it is to protect rare and fragile habitats, where no sustainable use is possible. And researchers found that the level of support for both commercial and recreational fishing remains strong.

“The public doesn’t support laws or regulations that hurt the nation’s small, independent fishermen or recreational fishing activities,” said Vern Goehring, manager of the California Fisheries Coalition. “They want smart management of marine ecosystems, not total ocean closures that hurt local economies.”
http://www.alliancefisheries.com/pub...22%202009.html

the info was translated into an article that was biased and left out information pertinent to the subject.

Acually Your Mexicans and Muslims comment I think was what really turned it sour. That was a Colorfull display of ignoramus.

Steelhead dont spawn in Lagoons. certainly not Lagoons in Southern California. We would have Stripers down here too if they had acess to brackish water to spawn. I caught one in Dana point.

No one on this forum is fishing for Juvi Rockfish. If any are caught on a rare ocasion. they are released, and the death to release ratio is pretty small. Becuase the catch ratio of juvi rockfish is very small.

Kayakfishing has a very low impact on the Rockfish populations The MPA does not protect agaisnt even 90% of the rockfish take in Southern California. Kayakfishing has little effect on most of these fisheries. Protecting Juvenile Rockfish does not improve the Rockfish Fishery, Regulating a lower limit or size Requirments does. There is no Juvenile Rockfish if there is not Big rockfish spawning. We have a good amount on Rockfish Spawning Protection now. That Fishery is closed a good portion of the year. and Regulated even by Depth in certain areas. lowering the daily limit would be leaps and bounds, not an MPA. You want to increase rockfish populations point your fingers at the Commerical Fishing. Not at us.

I dont need a Degree to know Big Squid, eat little fish. For an animal that grows from a Fry to 5 feet long in a little more than year, it has to eat alot of fish. Im willing to bet if there was a study, Im sure youd find a Substancial amount of Small Rockfish in there Diets. I never said i was expert. But Logic trumps reason.

There is very little enforcement in the already Existing MPAs... The MLPA does not have anything in that legislation that increases enforcement or enforcement personel. How do the police uphold the law without policemen patrolling the streets? a Law means nothing without enforcement. Theres not enough enforcement now... theres no tax dollars going around to increase enforcement tomorrow. Most of the newly expanded, or aquired MPA will have no enforcement when they become implemented. DFG is plenty understaffed. and Local Law enforcement wont pick up the Tab. They cant even Enforce protecting the Local Tidepools from the public stepping all over Sea Anemones.

And that Black Sea bass guy, He got his sure fare share of criticism on this forum and many others.. Acually it was alot of the Kayakfishing community who got the DFG and DA to investigate. The Fishing Community in general was what gave those videos the exposure, Which lead to him being charged.
Besides there was no kayak fisherman in the making of that film.
And since there was no MPA around that pier to save that fish, i guess it was just his unluckly day! :biggrinjester: he musta wandered away from his protected Kelp... :rolleyes:


The MPA hurts fishing access for us. It limits us on where we can fish. We are the ones most effected by it. just becuase you see alot of empty coastline apart form the closures on a map. doesnt mean there is efficiant or safe public access to it. The people who endanger our natural Resources the least are the ones being restricted the most. And were somehow supposed to apreciate the MLPA? or accept it for all its specualted goodness? I wish i could say our Tax dollars were funding this but its not, its Packard and Moore, and Special intrest groups, While Big oil gets involved to make sure its future buisness adventures are well protected. Its all upside down.

You maybe could have looked at the MLPA on its face and say hey its a good thing. Funny Enough at First i sure did. Until i started going to the meetings... And when i started to see and learn about some of the crooked side of it.

As far as pole #s go. If you put a poll up for califronians asking who they feel about more Oil drilling of the coast. after that BP and the goverments mess back in the Gulf. Im sure youd find folks would be "strongly agaisnt" Well even they are using the process to there advantage. I know a good deal about that i happen to have connectons involved in Big Oil.


You can post up here all your NOAA and your missworded poll Data. We are just recreational Fisherman, No some billion dollar Enviormental Lobbyist or monster coporations coalition trying to get there peice of the pie. We just want to fish and not be botherd.

please, no name calling. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

:doh:

I seem to remember that rule Dave...

maybe this is a "special" case

Come on guys, by now
We all know there is no "reasoning" with stan
This whole post is like looking at porno for a guy like him...
he has his pants down around his ankles,
typing shit he would never say in person, face to face with anyone here.

Keep it simple
stans a douche bag leaf licker

As you get "older" you realize kicking someone ass for being an obnoxious, argumentative little piece of shit, who doesn't know when to shut up or leave... just isn't right...

then a guy like Stan comes along
and kind of makes you rethink the whole idea


I wonder how many other boards stan is sharing these little rants with...
"oh look at me... look how upset I got all those mean kayak fishermen"
:biggrinjester:

He doesn't deserve to hear us re-hash our arguments
or our logic
if he wants to see what we have said on this subject he can go back in the DFG archives and watch us speak at the meetings...

Guys. He fishes with a fly rod. Enough said?:sifone:

Hey I fish with a fly rod!

Just for that remark, I now support the MLPA's most restrictive plan. Now I have to go cut my nose off to spite my face! :biggrinjester:

Kevin

wow.

Stan K G has got too much time on his hands.

And the things don't quite add up here...

Multiple requests for Spam Sanitation Dept intervention have been filed in.

I have a feeling we're not going to hear back from him - at least not from Stan K G account.

Told you sooo....:biggrinjester:

Lambchopmod, you should delete this guy's comments, he's still happy his posts are going to be up for a long long long time...

I knew that was coming!:linesnap:

at your service, master Grego

:luxhello: moderation is good

This ASSCLOWN is also starting crap and getting threads locked
on scsurffishing as well:the_finger:

http://www.scsurffishing.com/forums/...ic.php?t=64606

Stan,
Go pour yourself a nice tall glass of bleach & draino mix and drink up.:the_finger:

**I hope you have the pleasure of running into some of the nice guys here surf fishing.


IB4TL :)
(that's one for me Steveo)


EDIT- looks like Stan got the ban hammer. Good riddens.

:cool:

By the way, I have used my 12 wt fly rod and caught 150 lb makos. But, I am not a purist; I use casting gear for 99% saltwater and fly gear for 75% freshwater.

Kevin

Yay.

Mod cleaned up the trash nicely. :luxhello:

Aah, fresh air. Thanks Zenspero for your enlightening first post in this thread. It sure got everyone's juices going. Now what should we do?

Bob

Ya know, this amusing banter seems to have gotten everyone fired back up. Well done Stan, you accomplished the exact OPPOSITE of your mission to convince us our stand was misguided.

We are a very diverse group, but bring on a common enemy and see how fast we band together.