LOWRANCE ALERT !
 

If you own a Lowrance Fishfinder and are going to attend the Fred Hall Show
Please make it a point to stop at the Lowrance Truck and confront their rep. in person.
-Several of us have already done this at Long Beach. Their answer to us was:
"Its a game of numbers, the more that complain the better the chance something will get done about it."

For Years now we have been cheated by Lowrance if you bought an HDS Nautic Insight Fishfinder.
-It does Not have any bathmetric lines/contours in the areas we fish the most.
ALL OF LA JOLLA IS MISSING Including the NEW GEN 2 MODELS.

The area Missing is From Cardiff extending to the Mexican Border and extending approximately 2 miles out from shore.
-------------------------------
All Lowrance needs to do in order to fix this problem is purchase the Mapping from the Mapping Company - but they Cheaped Out and Ripped Us Off!

Don't settle for a Black and White Fish-N-Chip it turn your $1000 fish finder into a Black and White TV. Sucks.
----------------------------------------------
Thank You Guys. I plan on making several appearances to the Lowrance Display during the Show.

Did it at Long Beach and will do it again Tomorrow!

Real Men Don't Have FF....
 

On a serious note, I did not know that was the case w lorance. I was going to pull the trigger and buy it when they had the $100 manufacture rebate....I guess I'll hold off longer until they fix them-selves!

I'll be sure to run my hole at them on Sunday.

Kill!

Some Facts about the Ongoing Problem.

Lowrance's Southern California Rep.
Steve Hamber has been made aware of the above mentioned problem more than a Year ago.
Steve Hamber is a fair man and has tried to help us with the missing contours by supplying some B&W Chips on his own dime. - as per Gretta from West Marine.

We need to work together to get this done.
The Lowrance Company has Not responded to resolve this problem.

In fact, Louis M. Holmes the General Manager of the West Marine Flagship Store in Point Loma took screen shots from the HDS unit and emailed them to the Lowrance Rep. himself, while I was standing there on 8/27/2011
-I was subsequently cc copied on several e mails regarding the problem, however the only peace offering was a Black and White Fish-n-Chip.

This is not acceptable. You will not get ANY Shaded Relief, or 3D Contour with this Chip.
Think Black and White TV.
----------------------------------
The HDS Units including the New Gen 2 Model have the missing information. They have the potential to be fantastic, but Not in their present stage regarding the areas we fish the most.

Please Let the Reps. at the Show Know what You Need to resolve this.
Thanks
Billy V

Thanks for the info. I just installed my HDS - 5 GEN2, didn't realize that is the case.. Will stop by their booth to let them know too.

I am going tomorrow and well bring it up for sure.:)

Lowrance underperformance
 

I guess Lowrance doesn't consider the So. Cal. Kayak market worth worrying about. Looks like I'm going to reconsider a Simrad (as many Party Boats are equiped with and I'm familiar with).
Maybe even a Hummingbird, or Garmin.
FFY

Spoke with the Lowrance rep tonight at FHS. He swears that the 4.1 update (that came out within the last 30 days) contains the fix for the contour lines.

I cannot confirm or deny.

Simrad is owned by Lowrance, and also Does Not have the contour lines I was talking about. I have personally checked the high end units at West Marine, they all have the same missing information.

Cardiff to the Mexican Border and extending out 2 miles.

I was at the show tonight but had limited time to search for the Lowrance Booth, as I was helping out one of our kayak brothers.

Can you tell me where they were set up?
---------------------------
BTW My Generation 2 Model has all the latest software updates and it does not include the area Cardiff to the Mexican Border.

They also Did Not have a fix at the Long Beach Fred Hall Show last week. Kevin showed them the missing info on a new Gen 2 Model.

You can scroll the mapping at Fred Hall to confirm this info does, or does not exist. I will return Sunday.

Demand that they show you on the display unit !

Lowrance is right next to the Bass Tank in the same building as the Mammoth Lakes Seminar area, Fastlane, & Kevin (Sea Samurai) (third building).

It was Don Lovino (42 year employee of Lowrance) who swore that the fix is in there. I even asked him at his seminar, right in front of the crowd. Maybe the thing to do when you are there next time is - they have an HDS setup right there at the Seminar that he teaches. Walk up during/after the seminar and navigate to the page in front of the crowd. ;)

Wish I would have know about this a couple months ago. Just bought an HDS8.

When I return Sunday I will find a Lowrance rep and pull up La Jolla.

I just did this 2 weeks ago with a lowrance customer service rep on the phone.
-He also swore it was there, until I gave him the GPS #'s to look at - then I was placed on a loooong Hold.

I was told my Gen 2 has the most recent software version, buit the contour lines are not there.
-----------------------
Its simple enough to do. Make them show you La Jolla Canyon on the chart.:)

Thanks Billy. I was going to step up to a Simrad NSE and based on what you have posted, this will seriously alter my plans. Ron ad the big West Marine showed me both the Lowrance HDS-10 and the Simrad 12. No mention of the most important areas to us local fisherman. Again, thanks!
Dan

OK Guys here is the follow up to this story...

As promised I went to FH on Sunday and tracked down the Lowrance booth. It was actually fishing legend Don Iovino, a Lowrance Pro staffer that was displaying the Lowrance Banner.

-I asked him if he was aware that one of the most productive fishing area of Southern California had missing cartogrophy ? He said he was unaware - so I showed him.;)
He stood there in disbelief, and asked if I could return to the booth in 1 hour so we could talk more, as he was busy selling his fishing goods. He said he could help so I agreed.

-I returned in an hour and he was alone. I pulled up the chart and told him the saga. He was very cool about it and pulled out a phone number off his cell phone. He gave me the number for the 2nd in command at Lowrance and told me to explain the situation. He told me I had to get it to this guy to make it happen, anyone else was the wrong people.

-So today, Monday morning at 8 am I was on the phone, then fired off and email. It was very detailed with times, dates, and every person who I have dealt with to present date regarding this problem. By 10 am I had 2 responses from the big guy and the engineers in charge of cartography.
It reads as follows:

Mike's message to me
FYI here is the email I received , thank you again for your feed back . We’re thankfully for customers like yourself and your fishing bud’s.

Thanks for the continued feedback Mike. We are currently researching content to fill this gap as the official surveyed data that we rely on for our contours does not cover this area.

From a timing perspective keep in mind that we typically lock down requirements in April for the following year’s product. So fixes and requests for improvements received after April will not be included in the next release. So in the example below we received feedback in August 2011 which is too late to incorporate a fix in the 2012 product. The 2013 product is the next version we can update so we’re still working on this item. It hasn’t been forgotten.


Best regards,
Mike

-So in conclusion its coming, but it won't be here until the next update in 2013. I thanked Don Iovino for the immediate attention he gave toward helping us with this problem.

Thanks Billy!:you_rock::cheers1:

Thanks Billy !

A couple issues don't pass the smell test.

1) The issue is not with the product line, but with the software. I make my living in Software, you buy software, we all buy software. With every product we have bought, patches can be released at any time, especially for important issues. If this issue was costing the company money, or costing stockholders money, there would be a patch. Not in 2013, but now.

2) There is a fix, right now! Fish-N-Chip from Navionics. Lowrance already partners with Navionics and it's products come with Nautic Insight. If they want this fixed while they "fix" their product line, then start dishing out the Fish-N-Chip from Navionics.

Are you still in contact with Mike to give him some more feedback? Or willing to share his Contact info, and we can all let him know how to run his company and fix these issues now and keep face and customers.

Thx
Greg

I sent a follow up e mail this morning lets see what response I receive.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the fast response. The cartography that is missing from the HDS Nautic Insight fish finders can be found on Navionics Chart Cards like the Fish-N-Chip, or Navionics Gold, or Platinum Chart Cards.
What has puzzled us for so long is the information is readily available through Navionics, but has not included in any of the updates.

The cartogrophy guys wrote this in their e mail to you:
"Thanks for the continued feedback Mike. We are currently researching content to fill this gap as the official surveyed data that we rely on for our contours does not cover this area."

I really appreciate any help you give us.
Respectfully
Bill Vitale

Thanks Billy :cheers1:
And thank you for the updates as well.

He was pretty quick to answer the first time, but not so quick when you proved you knew what you were talking about?

Lowrance received the feedback you have referenced about the missing map data around La Jolla late in the summer of 2011. This was after the requirements for the 2012 Nautic Insight product had been completed and so the updates could not be included in the 2012 product. They do have the requests and have a solution planned but unfortunately it wasn’t in time for the 2012 product. It's because of customers like you guys that Lowrance has the opportunity to fix issues that are discovered like this. They have told me they appreciate guys that are passionate about this sport and aren't afraid of giving quality feedback. Their customers are their eyes and ears out here. I, like you, am a customer but I happen to be fortunate to be on the Pro Staff too and I was working the Lowrance booth at the Fred Hall in Long Beach. It's the things we fishermen find on the water when we're doing what we love that helps Lowrance make their products so much better. Word from Lowrance is they will have a fix in 2013 product which will be available in January.

Billy V, if you would like to participate in the beta testing of the fix later this summer send me your information and I'll see if this would be possible.

Ken Sauret
Lowrance Pro Staff
email fishnwin@yahoo.com

Thank You Ken.

Yes I would like to participate in the beta testing. I'll send you my info on e mail.
Thanks Again
Billy V

Hey Ken
Thats awesome that your taking a proactive approach which is greatly appreciated, but a lot of us have paid a substantial amount of money for an upgrade to a product that was misleading and falsely advertised, lets work on getting a patch for our guys now not a year from now.

RK is absolutely right!

This issue that is not a recent development. It has been around for a long time. Why is it only being responded to with the current issue in the release of the 2nd Gen? It should have been resolved in the 2nd Gen.

The distribution of the Fish'n Chip (Band-Aid for the geographical error in the 1st Gen) should have led to a decision to fix the gaping hole in Southern California in the upcoming models. I spoke with Tito and Steve, Lowrance Reps for Southern California, and Steve was familiar with this problem when Billy V had brought up this problem in the 1st Gen. So why not fix it in the 2nd Gen?

I had heard that this was supposedly going to be fixed in the 2nd Gen until I was called by Billy V saying that it is not fixed. We were looking forward to this problem being resolved. A different approach should be made, addressing this issue for current users. How about heavily discounted Fish'n Chips?

Good machines that can be made better!

:spam:

Thanks for the response Ken (and thx to Billy for pushing this through).

How about - loaner Fish-n-chips for all till Lowrance gets the update complete.

My opinion on this is...
 

I paid a premium for a charting application from Lowrance in my HDS Nautic Insight.
La Jolla is not some obscure remote location. Its one of the few places left to fish around here after the implementation of MLPA.

Customers have a right to expect Lowrance to fix this problem in a timely manner once they knew about it. It's been a couple of years. I do not buy the 'late 2011 explanation' I was talking to west marine about this over a year ago and it was not new to them.

I am happy for Billy V that he gets to test the beta next gen.
I DON'T HAVE NEXT GEN. MINE IS 1.5 YEARS OLD. WHAT ABOUT THAT?

No action because we haven't complained enough?
Is Lowrance really telling us that we have to bash their product to get a substantive response to this issue?

All I can say is - be careful what you wish for - bloodydecks, allcoast, hull truth, etc etc etc. You don't want a lot of hits on the internet for Xxxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxxxxxx.. Do you?

Do I sound pissed? Is that good for business?

I think I should be able to send my Nautic Insight back and get the basic GPS model and $100 cash back.

At the very least, don't make it look like you are just appeasing the one guy who has been the most vocal.

Please explain what you are doing for everyone.

Tom you literally took the words out of my mouth dude!!!!!!!!!!!!I am 100% behind everything you just said!

Here is one step for everyone to address this issue:

Email this guy: mike.campbell@navico.com

MIKE CAMPBELL| SR. REGIONAL SALES MANAGER | NAVICO AMERICAS

Billy's already done it, as well as myself. Let's make our voice heard!









Part of the Vitale Movement for Better Electronics (VMBE).

Tom, you are spot on, I too would be pretty pissed if I owned one. And it is certainly not good for business. I would like to buy a new ff/ gps combo in the near future and would have a very hard time justifying buying a product that costs that much money and still requires an additional expensive purchase to make it function properly. My money won't go to Lowrance until this is resolved that's for sure. I think Mike should probably know that they are losing new customers because of this problem. Thanks for his contact Kevin.

After having purchased a Fish-N-Chip on my own and using it for awhile, I will tell you that I would much prefer the Lowrance HD Nautic Insight Charting with its 3 D Shaded Contour.

Fish-N-Chip is only 2 D with no shaded relief. Black and White.
Yes, its is a detailed tool, but I would not forego updated Lowrance HDS 3D Cartography.

They both should be used together to get the entire picture of what is really below you.

I say this so you guys don't sell yourselves short by asking for a Fish-N-Chip, and Lowrance then deciding to take no further action on this matter.

I ready to put money up for a nice Lowerance system. However,
without the proper charting for La Jolla, I'm looking elsewhere.
I'm not waiting for Lowerance to finally fix this.

What are good alternatives?

Just emailed Mike Campbell

I was ready to pull the trigger on an HDS5 this weekend maybe I need to do a little more research! The sales rep at WM never said a thing to me.

The sales rep (Ron the electronics Guy) at West Marine in Point Loma knows 100% about the missing cartography. He has known since the beginning.

He chose to say nothing to you because he is a Salesman.

Once you buy it, its your problem.
Omission is a lie in the eyes of the law.

My Furuno is a fine quality unit, perhaps the best in the world as far as professional marine electronics go. They are not cheap but have the absolute best customer service in the industry. Furuno is used fleet wide on every local and long range commercial fishing boat based out of San Diego.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...D720/ry%3D480/

Fish-N-Chip
 

Agreed....
I have a Humminbird 597cidi with Fish-N-Chip, and I am not too happy about the b/w of it either.

When LOWRANCE fixed the coverage, I might change to HDS model too.

I don't really go on bloody decks but it's about time this thread gets added to that forum as well, obviously this is a better. Forum, however there's a ton of potential buyers on there that would love to be informed of this garbage.So billy or anyone on here that's into that site too lets get this going.

I appreciate you posting this information. The guys who own the current Lowrance units have probably never seen the fish n chip in their units and need to be made aware... Its not the end all, be all solution.

Lowrance HD 3D Cartography is the best overall picture you could read on a chart.
-Except that ALL of La Jolla is Missing - as well as the area of Cardiff Ca. to the Mexican Border and extending out 2 Miles from Shore. (about 40 continuous miles of the best fishing)

A Realistic View of the Area Missing - Its hard to believe.
http://maps.yahoo.com/#q=Cardiff-by-...=Tijuana%2C+BC

I'm just waiting on the sidelines for this fix. I want an HDS 5, but with all the negative crap i've been reading :( I'll just wait it out! with money burning a hole in my pocket!

I bought a HDS5-gen 2 about a month ago at West Marine. I specifically asked if the up-dates and missing info had been corrected in the gen 2. I was told that everything had been fixed!!! Mine is still in the box and will be going back for a refund. Thanks Billy V