Off Topic - Desalination Plants? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

YakDout · 07-21-2016, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfisher

I haven't been able to find a solid article on whether or not these plants are good or bad for the ocean, besides surfrider foundation claiming it will kill everything in the ocean. Interested to read more about it considering there is a plant going in right at Carlsbad.

Can anyone point me to a good article and/or mention thoughts on this?

Thanks ...

Going in? Like future tense? Must be a second one because my wifes best friend has been working at one in cbad for a long while now. The pipes run way out into the ocean and underneath cannon road to the plant. I doubt this theory of killing everything in the ocean is factual. The girl that I know who works there is very eco-friendly and would not even accept a job offer there if that were the case. My guess is people are bitter about the cost of water going up in that area to fund the plant.

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surfisher · 07-21-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YakDout

Going in? Like future tense? Must be a second one because my wifes best friend has been working at one in cbad for a long while now. The pipes run way out into the ocean and underneath cannon road to the plant. I doubt this theory of killing everything in the ocean is factual. The girl that I know who works there is very eco-friendly and would not even accept a job offer there if that were the case. My guess is people are bitter about the cost of water going up in that area to fund the plant.

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Not sure why i typed 'going in' .... Good to know though. I personally don't see a problem with the plants, just was curious to learn more about it.

YakDout · 07-21-2016, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfisher

Not sure why i typed 'going in' .... Good to know though. I personally don't see a problem with the plants, just was curious to learn more about it.

This might help your study.

http://carlsbaddesal.com/Websites/ca...Plan070308.pdf

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Kayak_Bernie · 07-22-2016, 09:52 AM

There are two major concerns when it comes to de-sal plants, first is the intake pipes, they suck in water which includes fish larva, some other small fish, planktonic plants and animals etc. and secondly is the affluent, which is hyper saline water. To mitigate impacts from the intake the de-sal operator is required to offset those impacts by creating habitat for spawning adult fish and growing larval fish. They are also responsible for monitoring their hyper saline affluent at the discharge point to ensure that it doesnt not have adverse effects on the ocean location. Overall I see it as a net positive activity, sure there are some drawbacks, but water is only going to get more and more scarce and de-sal plants and recycled water plants are the way of the future. PLUS the restoration of coastal wetlands means more habitat for baby fish, like seabass, and halibut and calico bass, more available suitable habitat is a great step in helping restore these fish stocks. We are not talking small pieces of land here, we are talking acres and acres of newly restored or created wetlands, and eel grass beds. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask, wetland and coastal lagoon restoration is my favorite part of my job, so I love talking about it.
Cheers,
Bernie

taggermike · 07-23-2016, 08:01 AM

I toured the desal plant when it was still a small pilot program. If it hasn't changed inlet and out fall, then it's taking water from the powerplant's effluent cooling water. Warm water is better for RO. The brine outfall is then put back in to, and diluted in, the much greater volume of the powerplant's effluent.

Almost all removal of raw sea water will result in killing plankton and larval fish and invertebrates. The rapid warming of the cooling water is fatal to much of the creatures passing thru the plant. The amount of additional damage caused by the desal plant is minimal as it's using the plant's outfall.

As for the brine out fall. If you've seen the flow between the Warm water jetties it's 1000's of gallon a minute. The brine is ejected in to, and diluted by, this much greater volume exiting the plant.

Any damage caused by the power plant's effluent water is from thermal changes to the water. A slight increase in salinity would have a negligible or even unnoticeable impact on the environment.

Many people oppose all coastal development on principle and create dooms day scenarios that will result from any change. If the desal project was stand alone and it's effluent was ejected in to an enclosed body of water it would have a negative impact. As is the brine is ejected with a massive volume of seawater in to a surf zone where it will be thoroughly mixed. Pockets if Deadly brine are unlikely to form. Mike

ronbo613 · 07-23-2016, 11:08 AM

What choices does Southern California have for fresh water? At least for the short term future, it would appear desalinization plants are one of very few options regardless of environmental impact. SoCal is at the end of the water pipe. A plant the size of the one in Carlsbad can produce water for about 100,000 homes. How many desalinization plants are going to be needed and who(and how) are you going to pay? I'm sure everyone who lives on the coast will want a desalinization plant next to their million dollar home.

No one knows for sure the long term impact of brine disposal and warm water discharge is going to be, any environmental impact reports are nothing more than educated guesses or motivated by political or financial interests. Ocean warming in certain areas can be devastating to plant and animal life, even if the water temp is higher by only a degree or two. Jacking saline levels, who knows?

Thirty million people(maybe twenty nine million since at least a million have moved to Portland, OR) living in the desert with no significant water resources, not sure what the expectations are.

taggermike · 07-23-2016, 02:26 PM

Well said ronbo. All of So Cal is a horrible location for a megalopolis. Looks like we're committed tho. Desal is expensive and provides little water Vs conservation that saves money and water. It is going to take a fundamental attitude shift in water users to make things better. Water doesn't come from the tap and it does vanish down the drain. Mike

07-22-2016, 09:52 AM	#4
Kayak_Bernie Live Watersports ProStaff Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Rolando Village Posts: 224	De-Sal Plants There are two major concerns when it comes to de-sal plants, first is the intake pipes, they suck in water which includes fish larva, some other small fish, planktonic plants and animals etc. and secondly is the affluent, which is hyper saline water. To mitigate impacts from the intake the de-sal operator is required to offset those impacts by creating habitat for spawning adult fish and growing larval fish. They are also responsible for monitoring their hyper saline affluent at the discharge point to ensure that it doesnt not have adverse effects on the ocean location. Overall I see it as a net positive activity, sure there are some drawbacks, but water is only going to get more and more scarce and de-sal plants and recycled water plants are the way of the future. PLUS the restoration of coastal wetlands means more habitat for baby fish, like seabass, and halibut and calico bass, more available suitable habitat is a great step in helping restore these fish stocks. We are not talking small pieces of land here, we are talking acres and acres of newly restored or created wetlands, and eel grass beds. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask, wetland and coastal lagoon restoration is my favorite part of my job, so I love talking about it. Cheers, Bernie __________________ Heroes on the Water SoCal Chapter Safety Director

07-23-2016, 11:08 AM	#6
ronbo613 Waterman At Large Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On the Water Posts: 199	What choices does Southern California have for fresh water? At least for the short term future, it would appear desalinization plants are one of very few options regardless of environmental impact. SoCal is at the end of the water pipe. A plant the size of the one in Carlsbad can produce water for about 100,000 homes. How many desalinization plants are going to be needed and who(and how) are you going to pay? I'm sure everyone who lives on the coast will want a desalinization plant next to their million dollar home. No one knows for sure the long term impact of brine disposal and warm water discharge is going to be, any environmental impact reports are nothing more than educated guesses or motivated by political or financial interests. Ocean warming in certain areas can be devastating to plant and animal life, even if the water temp is higher by only a degree or two. Jacking saline levels, who knows? Thirty million people(maybe twenty nine million since at least a million have moved to Portland, OR) living in the desert with no significant water resources, not sure what the expectations are. __________________ Kayak Fishing Photos and Video

07-23-2016, 08:01 AM	#5
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	I toured the desal plant when it was still a small pilot program. If it hasn't changed inlet and out fall, then it's taking water from the powerplant's effluent cooling water. Warm water is better for RO. The brine outfall is then put back in to, and diluted in, the much greater volume of the powerplant's effluent. Almost all removal of raw sea water will result in killing plankton and larval fish and invertebrates. The rapid warming of the cooling water is fatal to much of the creatures passing thru the plant. The amount of additional damage caused by the desal plant is minimal as it's using the plant's outfall. As for the brine out fall. If you've seen the flow between the Warm water jetties it's 1000's of gallon a minute. The brine is ejected in to, and diluted by, this much greater volume exiting the plant. Any damage caused by the power plant's effluent water is from thermal changes to the water. A slight increase in salinity would have a negligible or even unnoticeable impact on the environment. Many people oppose all coastal development on principle and create dooms day scenarios that will result from any change. If the desal project was stand alone and it's effluent was ejected in to an enclosed body of water it would have a negative impact. As is the brine is ejected with a massive volume of seawater in to a surf zone where it will be thoroughly mixed. Pockets if Deadly brine are unlikely to form. Mike

07-23-2016, 02:26 PM	#7
taggermike Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chula Vista Posts: 1,589	Well said ronbo. All of So Cal is a horrible location for a megalopolis. Looks like we're committed tho. Desal is expensive and provides little water Vs conservation that saves money and water. It is going to take a fundamental attitude shift in water users to make things better. Water doesn't come from the tap and it does vanish down the drain. Mike