WSB OREHP meeting with DFW

[Ggiannig89]

Some interesting info, thanks for relaying our important fishery updates.

[Fiskadoro]

Jim I love ya... but the return rate does not lie.

It's flawed methodology. This seems painfully obvious to me. Growing them in pens is a mistake. They should hatch them then release them immediately. Obviously fish that grow up in pens lack the skills necessary for life in the wild. Larval seabass develop in the plankton for about five weeks. They should release them in that planktonic stage in areas that they are known to be found so they then develop naturally with the instincts they need to survive long term. It would save time money and have a much higher success rate.

Fish grown in tanks or pens only understand tanks or pens, they imprint to that environment, this is why the tank grown butts do not know how to properly bury themselves.

I appreciate the idea and all the effort but to succeed with a hatchery they are going to have to release those fish into the wild ocean in a larval non imprinted stage.

[Saba Slayer]

Hey Jim
You're aware I don't run the program... and it's been in existence since 1983...

The first batch of 1,581 fish was released in Mission Bay in 1986.

I've been involved more and more for about the last 15 years. When CCA came into existence a few years ago I was appointed as alternate chair to John Riordan's position on the OREHP Advisory committee and the CCA rep for the WSB program. Before that I've been a volunteer at the Redondo grow-outs all this time and I do a one day a month clean and feed and help with the deliveries and releases.
I'm not a scientist...I'm just interested in the program and the resource.
We have spent a lot of time discussing the merits of earlier releases over the last couple of years in the twice yearly OREHP meetings...nothing happens fast in the science world or with the DFW.
The scientists from Hubbs have been communicating a lot more with the brainiacs from Texas and South Carolina on their successful hatchery programs...THAT ARE WELL FUNDED AND SUPPORTED BY THEIR DFW....!

The hatcheries in South Carolina and Texas that raise Red fish and Sea trout release their fish when they are very small...I may be wrong but I believe it's less that 100 days...
They also raise the fish in large ponds with brackish water that they pump in and they raise them on natural feed...
Both those states strongly support their hatchery programs and fund them to be successful.

This was the first Science Advisory Committee review in the history of the program and it was past due in my humble opinion. We need to fix this program or change it if it's not working...BUT...it's not going to happen if all you WSB fishermen sit on your hands and watch what transgresses.

Posting here is great but the real action and creativity take place in the public forum with the guys in charge and the DFW...

Please show up at the public meetings and offer creative info such as this to Hubbs and the DFW.
It's our program...we fund it...lets make it it what we want.

FYI...a WSB Fishery Management Plan meeting is this Friday at 10am at the DFW Los Alamitos office.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

Hey Jim
You're aware I don't run the program... and it's been in existence since 1983...

The first batch of 1,581 fish was released in Mission Bay in 1986.

I've been involved more and more for about the last 15 years. When CCA came into existence a few years ago I was appointed as alternate chair to John Riordan's position on the OREHP Advisory committee and the CCA rep for the WSB program. Before that I've been a volunteer at the Redondo grow-outs all this time and I do a one day a month clean and feed and help with the deliveries and releases.
I'm not a scientist...I'm just interested in the program and the resource.
We have spent a lot of time discussing the merits of earlier releases over the last couple of years in the twice yearly OREHP meetings...nothing happens fast in the science world or with the DFW.
The scientists from Hubbs have been communicating a lot more with the brainiacs from Texas and South Carolina on their successful hatchery programs...THAT ARE WELL FUNDED AND SUPPORTED BY THEIR DFW....!

The hatcheries in South Carolina and Texas that raise Red fish and Sea trout release their fish when they are very small...I may be wrong but I believe it's less that 100 days...
They also raise the fish in large ponds with brackish water that they pump in and they raise them on natural feed...
Both those states strongly support their hatchery programs and fund them to be successful.

This was the first Science Advisory Committee review in the history of the program and it was past due in my humble opinion. We need to fix this program or change it if it's not working...BUT...it's not going to happen if all you WSB fishermen sit on your hands and watch what transgresses.

Posting here is great but the real action and creativity take place in the public forum with the guys in charge and the DFW...

Please show up at the public meetings and offer creative info such as this to Hubbs and the DFW.
It's our program...we fund it...lets make it it what we want.

FYI...a WSB Fishery Management Plan meeting is this Friday at 10am at the DFW Los Alamitos office.

I know Jim. I just know you are invested in this, and I didn't want to hurt your feelings or come across as bashing it. I've always been pro hatchery, I even went on the first halibut collection trip. I figured the Seabass plan was working until that recent report.

[Saba Slayer]

"I figured the Seabass plan was working until that recent report."

I've been getting the feeling that it wasn't working the last couple of years of meetings and the return numbers were just too poor as they were presented.. but I'm no scientist and I'm still learning about all the science and politics involved...so I'm just glad they finally did an outside scientific review of the program.
There are so many factors involved with the sampling...10 years ago they stopped sampling with gill nets above Palos Verdes due to budget cuts...when United Anglers went down the incentives that they were offering for returned sea bass heads was shut off, the number of heads turned in has declined greatly...and what incentive do the commercials have to turn in heads...?
The lack of effort in fishing for WSB when all those Yellows were around locally for a couple of years effected the number of fish caught as did the lack of squid beds locally. The warm water seemed to chase em up north where the numbers were better the last few years.
Anyway...too many factors to just nail it down easily...

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by Saba Slayer

"I figured the Seabass plan was working until that recent report."

I've been getting the feeling that it wasn't working the last couple of years of meetings and the return numbers were just too poor as they were presented.. but I'm no scientist and I'm still learning about all the science and politics involved...so I'm just glad they finally did an outside scientific review of the program.
There are so many factors involved with the sampling...10 years ago they stopped sampling with gill nets above Palos Verdes due to budget cuts...when United Anglers went down the incentives that they were offering for returned sea bass heads was shut off, the number of heads turned in has declined greatly...and what incentive do the commercials have to turn in heads...?
The lack of effort in fishing for WSB when all those Yellows were around locally for a couple of years effected the number of fish caught as did the lack of squid beds locally. The warm water seemed to chase em up north where the numbers were better the last few years.
Anyway...too many factors to just nail it down easily...

The other deal is that fish released local could end up anywhere. 2 million fish seem like a lot until you look at their whole range.

Have you seen the NPR story on this?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/02/15/585500501/-40-million-later-a-pioneering-plan-to-boost-wild-fish-stocks-shows-little-succe

[Saba Slayer]

"Have you seen the NPR story on this?"...
yes...not so nice...
PAL's story on Greg's WSB catch of the oldest tagged fish yet returned and the SAC review in the latest Western Outdoor news is pretty good...it's a very honest and "middle of the road" article. He interviewed the right people and didn't twist the info.

"The other deal is that fish released local could end up anywhere."
That's a reason they are looking at Halibut...thinking they may stay around more locally. The WSB follow the food and the conditions...