Leader to Swivel Knot - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

FISHIONADO · 08-26-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whizz Bang

Wed. 8/26 PM

I just lost one....from the feel, a real nice one to this exact problem. I had a Uni to the swivel on 25lb flouro....stupid. After a SCREAMING clicker, then a screaming drag, I lost it at the swivel. I had jinxed myself as I had read this thread before heading out the door. Oh yeah, guess who I bumped into right after I lost it.....Bender, the same guy who started this damn thread. We had a nice, LONG paddle back commiserating.

I really appreciate all the "old timers" sharing their thoughts on this one. Right now it is near and dear to my heart.....my little, black, hate filled heart.....stupid Uni.

Ouch , sorry for that. You can hate the uni but it's hard to argue with the fish that I have caught with it, many 30+, several 40+, and one 50+. I haven't lost a single fish to a knot since I started using the uni. I have the same hatred towards the improved clinch knot. It was the only knot I knew when I started and I lost several fish to it.

JrBasser · 08-27-2009, 10:55 AM

Knots are funny. I too started with the improved clinch, and have broken off very few fish with it :/ That being said, I rarely fish it anymore. But it has held up to many 100 lb class bat ray and what not. The only knot I tie to swivels, lures, etc is the san diego. Irons, double san diego jam knot, and for connections, a double albright. The Key to the albright with spectra is make sure you wrap the spectra around th emono. 10 turns has always worked for me.

Willy · 08-27-2009, 01:37 PM

When the palomar is not an option I use the fishinfool knot: http://www.fnflures.com/page10.html

It's like a sexy uni.

I have stopped using albrights as much, as I lost a pretty yeller boatside to a tired albright.
The knot was tired, that's the story I'm stickin to.

Willy

1Flatfish · 08-27-2009, 02:05 PM

Palomar your leader to the swivel first, Then palomar the swivel to the main line. It's easy to pull the leader through the main line loop.

Whizz Bang · 08-27-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHIONADO

Ouch , sorry for that. You can hate the uni but it's hard to argue with the fish that I have caught with it, many 30+, several 40+, and one 50+. I haven't lost a single fish to a knot since I started using the uni. I have the same hatred towards the improved clinch knot. It was the only knot I knew when I started and I lost several fish to it.

Fishionado,

You cant argue with those fish, but are you using the uni to a swivel with flouro? I was very careful when I tied it but honestly wonder if being pulled on from the other direction may cause slippage. I went out today and bumped up my flouro to 30lb from 25lb. Im thinking I will forgo the swivel (read albright) or palomar the damn thing.

FISHIONADO · 08-27-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whizz Bang

Fishionado,

You cant argue with those fish, but are you using the uni to a swivel with flouro? I was very careful when I tied it but honestly wonder if being pulled on from the other direction may cause slippage. I went out today and bumped up my flouro to 30lb from 25lb. Im thinking I will forgo the swivel (read albright) or palomar the damn thing.

I use larger swivels with a fluorescent bead above the swivel so it doesn't go through the rod guides. Spectra with a bead tied to the swivel, then about 4' of 25 or 30lb flouro to the hook. After I tie the knot and loosely cinch it I lube it with spit then pull tight on the tag end, then pull the line, then pull the tag end again to ensure it is tightly cinched. On the flouro you will feel it sort of click in place when pulling tight on the line. I only use Seaguer flouro, it's expensive but I only use 4' at a time so not a big deal. I use the uni for everything including the hook. I can't find fish consistently like Josh does but once they are on my line they usually end up in my belly.

beardedguy · 09-01-2009, 01:07 AM

I'm no one to correct anybody, but is it possible your refering to the
Tony Pefia knot? I think Tony Pena played baseball or something.

bender0240 · 09-01-2009, 09:50 AM

Thanks er'body for all the great info.

Fishionado- Your words give me a lot more faith in my favorite knot (The UNI!) I think I must be tying it wrong. Tying knots seems to be a different ball game with thicker line. They don't seem to cinch down as smooth as say 6lb test

I'll come around to the spectra to fluoro knot's after I catch a few more fish and am more confident. I've tested the Albright, Tony Pena (or Pefia depending on who you're asking) and Double Uni and they've all tested very strong (although the Double Uni really seems to need a precise number of turns of spectra(more) and fluoro(less) depending on their relative widths, or else one will slip through the other.)

Corey- I'll be sure to always spit on my knot before applying friction or at least have someone else spit on it for me.

I also like to make sure there's plenty of room before performing the "wrap around". And I always, always, always make sure my "tag end" is clean before trying to put it in the "eye hole"

(innuendo wholeheartedly applied)

forefrazier · 09-01-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardedguy

I'm no one to correct anybody, but is it possible your refering to the
Tony Pefia knot? I think Tony Pena played baseball or something.

Don't know who Tony Pefia is either??

If you were to do a simple google search you will find both names. One return for the Pefia is just a modified way of tying the Pena knot. More turns on the tag end...not really needed if you tie it right.

MalibuJohnny · 09-01-2009, 11:35 AM

Tony Pefia knot. This knot was developed by renowned California offshore specialist and writer, Tony Pefia.

It's strength and small size make it a must for any fisherman needing a Spectra to mono connection. It's a 100% strength knot that I've used over the years, the last three in a modified form, all without a single failure. There are other knots to make a reliable Spectra to mono connection, this one is smooth through the guides, and its strength is second to none.

Tony Pefia's knot doesn't have the 1/2 hitch and 6 turn lock as in the illustration, that was my idea. These last steps don't make the connection any stronger, they just smooth out the overhand knot in the mono side of the knot. California anglers historically have used rods with rollers or stainless steel ring guides for the most part. The original Tony Pefia knot works well with these rods but gives a burnp/jolt to ceramic or silicon carbide insert type guides on the retrieve. The inserts may be loosened and possibly knocked out of their guide's frame. This modified knot virtually eliminates that ring shock problem. I have knocked out a couple of ring inserts from the guide frame with the original Tony Pefia; this is why I started putting the smoothing six turn lock knot against the mono's overhand knot.

This knot is not only strong and smooth but it's easy to tie with a little practice. To start, tie a loose, overhand knot in the mono leader as shown at the top of the illustration, leaving about 12" of a tag end at (#1). Insert the Spectra from your reel through the overhand knot (#2) for 12" or more. Firmly snug, but not tighten, the mono's overhand knot around the Spectra. Form a loop, (#3), in the Spectra, hold with your left thumb and index finger. Next, wrap the Spectra around the mono 10-12 times as in the illustration, then pinch at (#4) with your right thurnb and index finger; hold the Spectra wraps, releasing your left hand grip, then make an additional 10- 12 wraps back toward the Spectra loop next to the overhand knot in the mono. Run the tag end of the Spectra through that Spectra loop to the point shown. Holding the mono tightly, well outside of the Spectra double wraps, slowly pull on the Spectra from the reel (#5), not the Spectra's tag end.

Wrap your Spectra around a gloved hand for safety's sake and watch the Spectra spiral around the mono and toward the overhand knot as you pull the Spectra up snug tight. Next, tighten the "firmly snugged" overhand knot in the mono; now give the final tighten to the Spectra wraps by holding onto the mono and again carefully pulling on the Spectra from the reel. This is where my modification of the Tony Pefia knot begins; the lock knot that allows for smooth passage of the overhand knot end of the Pefia knot through your ring guides. The half hitch and 6-tum lock (#6) & (#7) are shown around the Spectra from the reel and the mono's tag end.

Do the half-hitch first and hold it in place with your left thumb and index finger while forming the lock knot. Tighten the lock by carefully holding the Spectra to the reel (48) and slowly pulling on the Spectra's tag end (#9) to tighten the lock knot, then cut off close. The next to the last step is to cautiously apply a small drop of liquid superglue to the lock knot where the tag end of the Spectra was cut off with scissors. The final step is to carefully cut off the mono's tag end at a slight angle, close to the outer end of the lock knot.

While tying this knot may sound complicated, I assure you that it isn't; following the text and the illustration will give you a foolproof, 100% knot strength, slick through your ring guides, easy to tie, Spectra to mono connection.

This knot can be used for just about any Spectra to mono connection where a small, high strength knot is needed. With mono of 1004 or more; use a double overhand knot in the mono instead of a single. Also increase the Spectra wraps to 15 to 25 around the mono. On my reels used for red snapper, kingfish, ling, wahoo, cobia etc, 100# Power Pro Spectra is used with an 80# Izorline mono leader. Drags are set at 15# at the strike position, giving 25# at the full position. The 100# Power Pro is the size of 20# mono and is much easier to untangle a backlash than say, 5 0#. The other benefits of the 20# mono size of 100# Power Pro are all related to keeping a larger spooled line diameter on the reel. This allows longer casts and the drag works smoother and cooler since the spool turns less per foot of line pulled through it. You also get more line back on the spool per turn of your reel handle and this lets you greatly increase your reel's line capacity.

My line preference is PowerPro Spectra in Hi-Vis Yellow or white. Using these colors give you two important advantages; you can monitor your line's position and others near you can do the same. This helps avoid tangles, cutoffs and lost fish. With a 15 to 20' mono leader, the colored PowerPro isn't going to be seen by the fish, even in clear water. If you have a concern in this area, camo 15 feet of the Spectra with a blue Marks-A-Lot. Simply cut a slit in the marker's felt tip and run the Spectra through it, suddenly, it becomes almost invisible in blue water. Using a 15 foot 80# mono leader gives you a mono length that allows many chances to re-tie at its outer end due to cutoffs, lure or hook changes, etc. The mono is also much safer to handle while bringing a fish aboard than the thin Spectra.

While this knot may look complicated, I assure you that it isn't. Following the text and illustration will give you a foolproof, 100% knot strength, slick through your ring guides, easy to tie, Spectra to mono connection. It's a snap to tie the "Lemire Modified Tony Pefia Knot" correctly - it's "experience tested", and the edge you may be looking for.

robmandel · 09-01-2009, 12:55 PM

I have had good success with both the uni2uni and the albright. but, another knot that I like alot, and works very well is the double surgeon's knot. it's got great strength, maybe not as high as the uni, albright, pena, etc., but it's close. however, it is super easy to tie and when you're on a kayak and need a quick leader, a helluva lot easier than the others. sometimes I do a triple surgeons, but other than that, I had 50lb spectra tied to 30lb flouro. was throwing a swimmie in the boilers a couple of weeks back and got hung. oh crap !!! started getting pushed into shore so I back paddled out and got away and actually was able to pull the hook free. it came back bent outwards a bit. I'd guess that the triple surgeon's was strong enough.

first choice? maybe not. but, it's a great knot nonetheless.

09-01-2009, 11:35 AM	#10
MalibuJohnny Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lahina (I Wish) Posts: 272	Tony Pena Knot or Tony Pefia Knot Tony Pefia knot. This knot was developed by renowned California offshore specialist and writer, Tony Pefia. It's strength and small size make it a must for any fisherman needing a Spectra to mono connection. It's a 100% strength knot that I've used over the years, the last three in a modified form, all without a single failure. There are other knots to make a reliable Spectra to mono connection, this one is smooth through the guides, and its strength is second to none. Tony Pefia's knot doesn't have the 1/2 hitch and 6 turn lock as in the illustration, that was my idea. These last steps don't make the connection any stronger, they just smooth out the overhand knot in the mono side of the knot. California anglers historically have used rods with rollers or stainless steel ring guides for the most part. The original Tony Pefia knot works well with these rods but gives a burnp/jolt to ceramic or silicon carbide insert type guides on the retrieve. The inserts may be loosened and possibly knocked out of their guide's frame. This modified knot virtually eliminates that ring shock problem. I have knocked out a couple of ring inserts from the guide frame with the original Tony Pefia; this is why I started putting the smoothing six turn lock knot against the mono's overhand knot. This knot is not only strong and smooth but it's easy to tie with a little practice. To start, tie a loose, overhand knot in the mono leader as shown at the top of the illustration, leaving about 12" of a tag end at (#1). Insert the Spectra from your reel through the overhand knot (#2) for 12" or more. Firmly snug, but not tighten, the mono's overhand knot around the Spectra. Form a loop, (#3), in the Spectra, hold with your left thumb and index finger. Next, wrap the Spectra around the mono 10-12 times as in the illustration, then pinch at (#4) with your right thurnb and index finger; hold the Spectra wraps, releasing your left hand grip, then make an additional 10- 12 wraps back toward the Spectra loop next to the overhand knot in the mono. Run the tag end of the Spectra through that Spectra loop to the point shown. Holding the mono tightly, well outside of the Spectra double wraps, slowly pull on the Spectra from the reel (#5), not the Spectra's tag end. Wrap your Spectra around a gloved hand for safety's sake and watch the Spectra spiral around the mono and toward the overhand knot as you pull the Spectra up snug tight. Next, tighten the "firmly snugged" overhand knot in the mono; now give the final tighten to the Spectra wraps by holding onto the mono and again carefully pulling on the Spectra from the reel. This is where my modification of the Tony Pefia knot begins; the lock knot that allows for smooth passage of the overhand knot end of the Pefia knot through your ring guides. The half hitch and 6-tum lock (#6) & (#7) are shown around the Spectra from the reel and the mono's tag end. Do the half-hitch first and hold it in place with your left thumb and index finger while forming the lock knot. Tighten the lock by carefully holding the Spectra to the reel (48) and slowly pulling on the Spectra's tag end (#9) to tighten the lock knot, then cut off close. The next to the last step is to cautiously apply a small drop of liquid superglue to the lock knot where the tag end of the Spectra was cut off with scissors. The final step is to carefully cut off the mono's tag end at a slight angle, close to the outer end of the lock knot. While tying this knot may sound complicated, I assure you that it isn't; following the text and the illustration will give you a foolproof, 100% knot strength, slick through your ring guides, easy to tie, Spectra to mono connection. This knot can be used for just about any Spectra to mono connection where a small, high strength knot is needed. With mono of 1004 or more; use a double overhand knot in the mono instead of a single. Also increase the Spectra wraps to 15 to 25 around the mono. On my reels used for red snapper, kingfish, ling, wahoo, cobia etc, 100# Power Pro Spectra is used with an 80# Izorline mono leader. Drags are set at 15# at the strike position, giving 25# at the full position. The 100# Power Pro is the size of 20# mono and is much easier to untangle a backlash than say, 5 0#. The other benefits of the 20# mono size of 100# Power Pro are all related to keeping a larger spooled line diameter on the reel. This allows longer casts and the drag works smoother and cooler since the spool turns less per foot of line pulled through it. You also get more line back on the spool per turn of your reel handle and this lets you greatly increase your reel's line capacity. My line preference is PowerPro Spectra in Hi-Vis Yellow or white. Using these colors give you two important advantages; you can monitor your line's position and others near you can do the same. This helps avoid tangles, cutoffs and lost fish. With a 15 to 20' mono leader, the colored PowerPro isn't going to be seen by the fish, even in clear water. If you have a concern in this area, camo 15 feet of the Spectra with a blue Marks-A-Lot. Simply cut a slit in the marker's felt tip and run the Spectra through it, suddenly, it becomes almost invisible in blue water. Using a 15 foot 80# mono leader gives you a mono length that allows many chances to re-tie at its outer end due to cutoffs, lure or hook changes, etc. The mono is also much safer to handle while bringing a fish aboard than the thin Spectra. While this knot may look complicated, I assure you that it isn't. Following the text and illustration will give you a foolproof, 100% knot strength, slick through your ring guides, easy to tie, Spectra to mono connection. It's a snap to tie the "Lemire Modified Tony Pefia Knot" correctly - it's "experience tested", and the edge you may be looking for. __________________ Malibu Johnny must catch fish

08-27-2009, 10:55 AM	#2
JrBasser Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 260	Knots are funny. I too started with the improved clinch, and have broken off very few fish with it :/ That being said, I rarely fish it anymore. But it has held up to many 100 lb class bat ray and what not. The only knot I tie to swivels, lures, etc is the san diego. Irons, double san diego jam knot, and for connections, a double albright. The Key to the albright with spectra is make sure you wrap the spectra around th emono. 10 turns has always worked for me.

08-27-2009, 01:37 PM	#3
Willy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: La Jolla Posts: 189	When the palomar is not an option I use the fishinfool knot: http://www.fnflures.com/page10.html It's like a sexy uni. I have stopped using albrights as much, as I lost a pretty yeller boatside to a tired albright. The knot was tired, that's the story I'm stickin to. Willy Last edited by Willy; 08-27-2009 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Stoopid

08-27-2009, 02:05 PM	#4
1Flatfish Wayne Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 98	Leader knots Palomar your leader to the swivel first, Then palomar the swivel to the main line. It's easy to pull the leader through the main line loop.

09-01-2009, 01:07 AM	#7
beardedguy gurmpy old one Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: El Cajon Posts: 80	I'm no one to correct anybody, but is it possible your refering to the Tony Pefia knot? I think Tony Pena played baseball or something.

09-01-2009, 09:50 AM	#8
bender0240 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 118	Thanks er'body for all the great info. Fishionado- Your words give me a lot more faith in my favorite knot (The UNI!) I think I must be tying it wrong. Tying knots seems to be a different ball game with thicker line. They don't seem to cinch down as smooth as say 6lb test I'll come around to the spectra to fluoro knot's after I catch a few more fish and am more confident. I've tested the Albright, Tony Pena (or Pefia depending on who you're asking) and Double Uni and they've all tested very strong (although the Double Uni really seems to need a precise number of turns of spectra(more) and fluoro(less) depending on their relative widths, or else one will slip through the other.) Corey- I'll be sure to always spit on my knot before applying friction or at least have someone else spit on it for me. I also like to make sure there's plenty of room before performing the "wrap around". And I always, always, always make sure my "tag end" is clean before trying to put it in the "eye hole" (innuendo wholeheartedly applied)

09-01-2009, 12:55 PM	#11
robmandel Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 186	I have had good success with both the uni2uni and the albright. but, another knot that I like alot, and works very well is the double surgeon's knot. it's got great strength, maybe not as high as the uni, albright, pena, etc., but it's close. however, it is super easy to tie and when you're on a kayak and need a quick leader, a helluva lot easier than the others. sometimes I do a triple surgeons, but other than that, I had 50lb spectra tied to 30lb flouro. was throwing a swimmie in the boilers a couple of weeks back and got hung. oh crap !!! started getting pushed into shore so I back paddled out and got away and actually was able to pull the hook free. it came back bent outwards a bit. I'd guess that the triple surgeon's was strong enough. first choice? maybe not. but, it's a great knot nonetheless.