Catch & Release Discussion

[cioppino]

Originally Posted by dsafety

Dorado, I am sure that you are correct in what you have written about the foreign and commercial fishing impact. Unfortunately, you and I have no control over that and we both know that our Government is not interested in solving this problem. No money or votes to be gained there.

I believe that you are incorrect, however, when you say that "kayak fisherman and private boats have no impact on our fisheries whatsoever". If that is the case, where did all the Black Sea Bass go 40 years ago. Why is the average size of a local rockfish only a pound or two these days when they were five times that size just a few years back. Neither of these types of fish were ever a commercial target. The change came as a result of irresponsible recreational fishing practices years ago. Sure, things are improving but we have to stay the course.

Everything we do has an impact. All I am suggesting is that we all behave responsibly.

Why am I so worried about La Jolla? That is a surprising question coming from a veteran yakfisher. To me and a lot of others in this part of the world La Jolla is the single most important fishing destination in the region. No other place comes close.

Bob

We americans are just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to commercial over-fishing. Dont just point the finger at the Mexicans.

Bob when it comes to local fish you have to realize that they were and are commercially targeted. Commercial fishing by definition is the act of taking fish from the ocean for the purpose of profit. Well last I checked half day and three quarter day boats werent running out there to bring home fillets to the family. They were and are doing it strictly for cash in the pocket.
A fishing pole is not much different than a commercial Jack pole, just more line and sometimes more hooks. So now you have four half day boats and two or three three quarter day boats heading out when business is good. Shoot might as well fill em up to capacity, after all its not about fishing pleasure its about selling as many tickets as you can. So all those boats add up to about two hundred or so fishermen a day running out to la jolla, oh yeah don forget about the twilight boat, wouldnt want to give the fish a break. Do that everyday for an entire summer and fall or for as long as you can sell a ton of tickets. Shoot that adds up to tens of thousands of lines hitting the water locally a month. That adds up to some serious commercial fishing pressure if you ask me. That my friend is why a calico over twelve inches is so hard to come by towards the end of summer and why rockfish are so small.

The problems are numerous and BIG. Pollution, commercial pressure, cattle boat pressure. Not sure what to do about it Bob. The DFG should take a good hard look at size and take limits. Might be the only way to truly help our local fish species.
Honestly the yak community is the smallest part of the equation. I understand your concern Bob, but man there are bigger fish to fry.

[dorado50]

Originally Posted by cioppino

We americans are just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to commercial over-fishing. Dont just point the finger at the Mexicans.

Bob when it comes to local fish you have to realize that they were and are commercially targeted. Commercial fishing by definition is the act of taking fish from the ocean for the purpose of profit. Well last I checked half day and three quarter day boats werent running out there to bring home fillets to the family. They were and are doing it strictly for cash in the pocket.
A fishing pole is not much different than a commercial Jack pole, just more line and sometimes more hooks. So now you have four half day boats and two or three three quarter day boats heading out when business is good. Shoot might as well fill em up to capacity, after all its not about fishing pleasure its about selling as many tickets as you can. So all those boats add up to about two hundred or so fishermen a day running out to la jolla, oh yeah don forget about the twilight boat, wouldnt want to give the fish a break. Do that everyday for an entire summer and fall or for as long as you can sell a ton of tickets. Shoot that adds up to tens of thousands of lines hitting the water locally a month. That adds up to some serious commercial fishing pressure if you ask me. That my friend is why a calico over twelve inches is so hard to come by towards the end of summer and why rockfish are so small.

The problems are numerous and BIG. Pollution, commercial pressure, cattle boat pressure. Not sure what to do about it Bob. The DFG should take a good hard look at size and take limits. Might be the only way to truly help our local fish species.
Honestly the yak community is the smallest part of the equation. I understand your concern Bob, but man there are bigger fish to fry.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head! Like I said,"kayak fisherman and private boats have no impact on our fisheries at all".

[dsafety]

Originally Posted by cioppino

We americans are just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to commercial over-fishing. Dont just point the finger at the Mexicans.

Bob when it comes to local fish you have to realize that they were and are commercially targeted. Commercial fishing by definition is the act of taking fish from the ocean for the purpose of profit. Well last I checked half day and three quarter day boats werent running out there to bring home fillets to the family. They were and are doing it strictly for cash in the pocket.
A fishing pole is not much different than a commercial Jack pole, just more line and sometimes more hooks. So now you have four half day boats and two or three three quarter day boats heading out when business is good. Shoot might as well fill em up to capacity, after all its not about fishing pleasure its about selling as many tickets as you can. So all those boats add up to about two hundred or so fishermen a day running out to la jolla, oh yeah don forget about the twilight boat, wouldnt want to give the fish a break. Do that everyday for an entire summer and fall or for as long as you can sell a ton of tickets. Shoot that adds up to tens of thousands of lines hitting the water locally a month. That adds up to some serious commercial fishing pressure if you ask me. That my friend is why a calico over twelve inches is so hard to come by towards the end of summer and why rockfish are so small.

The problems are numerous and BIG. Pollution, commercial pressure, cattle boat pressure. Not sure what to do about it Bob. The DFG should take a good hard look at size and take limits. Might be the only way to truly help our local fish species.
Honestly the yak community is the smallest part of the equation. I understand your concern Bob, but man there are bigger fish to fry.

Cioppino,

You are not going to get any disagreement from me on the points you mentioned above. I am sure that you are dead-on, including your statement that yakfishers are among the smallest dangers to a sustainable fishery. As a group, we are probably the most responsible fishers out there as well.

That does not alter my opinion that even though we may behave better than some others, we still need to do our best to help protect this resource we all love so much. I am hopeful that the PBers and Cattle Boat operators will do the same.

Most of us are already doing all the right things and that is terrific. Unfortunately, there are still a few among us who either disagree with this philosophy or have not yet gotten the message.

This thread began in response to some young guy bragging about how he was able to catch and kill three huge YT in three days. That was a remarkable feat that most of us will never experience. I am curious about what happened to all the meat from those fish. If it was all consumed or frozen to be eaten a few months from now, great. No harm, no foul.

If, on the other hand, some of those fish were killed for no reason other than so this gentleman could display his trophies and show off what a great fisher he is, I have a problem with that.

There is a world class fisherman among us who fishes nearly every day, mostly targeting YT and WSB. I have been beside this guy as caught and released a big YT. It was the first time I had seen this done. Later in the day, he caught another, which he kept. If he had caught a third on that day, I am sure it would have been released. I suspect that this great fisherman releases more fish during a typical season than most of the rest of us will catch in a lifetime. To me this is the responsible way to enjoy our sport.

Bob

[deepdvr]

Everyone has an opinion on it. My take....I don't give a shit what you do as long as I'm catching something. Stay within the regs and don't waste the resource. Some people drive gas guzzlers some people drive hybrids, some people prefer blondes some prefer brunettes. Personally I like em all! For me, its like the opportunity to have sex. It rarely, if ever, comes around for me, so when the opportunity does present itself you'd better believe I'm all over it and I'm taking all that I can. Except for that one time I ran out of money at the cul-de-sac of love just outside of Carson NV.

[Iceman]

This won't be a popular opinion here but I think going fishing with the intent to catch and release is silly. Basically, you get your kicks out of fooling fish into biting your lure, allowing them to fight for their life and exhaust them, take them out of the water and possible damage them, then feel good about yourself for releasing a spent fish who is now a big target for other predators.

I stop fishing after I have 20+ pounds of fish. After a 40 or 50 lb fish I might not go out again for a couple of months. Not saying everyone should do what I do, just sharing another opinion.

Catch and release is not necessarily the most noble of things, give someone else the opportunity to get theirs. This sport is more of an addiction than therapy to some.

Dave, I can appreciate your perspective. I am satisfied with a good catch and savor that "mission accomplished" until the next time. I don't ever recall fishing 2 days in a row even if it is WFO.

[MVC]

I pretty much do my part by being a crappy fisherman. I never catch anything at La Jolla except Calico.

[steveooo]

Blast from the past

Originally Posted by madscientist

I never had any interest in being a sportsman. In some ways, I find the notion of hooking and potentially injuring fish just for pleasure, or "sport", less morally defensible than fishing for meat. Walking around the neighborhood trying to kick cats would be sport as well, but most would say somewhat cruel.

Providing fresh, organic, wild caught, non-netted, non-polluting, non-commercially processed seafood to people you care about, now that's a crime and a horrible example to set!

[dsafety]

Originally Posted by steveooo

Blast from the past

Quote: Originally Posted by madscientist I never had any interest in being a sportsman. In some ways, I find the notion of hooking and potentially injuring fish just for pleasure, or "sport", less morally defensible than fishing for meat. Walking around the neighborhood trying to kick cats would be sport as well, but most would say somewhat cruel. Providing fresh, organic, wild caught, non-netted, non-polluting, non-commercially processed seafood to people you care about, now that's a crime and a horrible example to set!

Today 09:06 AM

Interesting perspective Steveoo.

Do you think madscientist was suggesting that if we fish at all, we should kill and take everything we hook because making them fight for a while and then letting them go is cruel, just like kicking a cat?

I can see his point but I just don't agree.

Bob

[taggermike]

This sort of c&r versus cunsumption pissing match isn't helpful to anglers. To our oponents the very act of fishing is the problem. It's not what you take it's the fact that you fish at all that is the issue. Attacking each other doesn't help us but only provides ammo for zero fishing advocates. Obey the regs, eat what you take, and only critisize those that don't do the first 2. Mike

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by dsafety

Interesting perspective Steveoo.

Do you think madscientist was suggesting that if we fish at all, we should kill and take everything we hook because making them fight for a while and then letting them go is cruel, just like kicking a cat?

Bob

I don't mean that I have any clue what he was trying to suggest. It is merely a quote that I found amusing when this topic came up several years back. Possibly another perspective to be considered? All i do know is that it has been so long since I've landed a large fish, that the ones I have caught in the past seen to keep increasing in quantity and quality in my mind. Cat kicking does seem decently fun though, so does fishing now that I think of it...

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by dsafety

Do you think madscientist was suggesting that if we fish at all, we should kill and take everything we hook because making them fight for a while and then letting them go is cruel

Fish are fish... people try to project human emotions on them.

Fish are fish, People are people, fisherman are fisherman.

I think anyone who fishes enough is going to run into times when they catch fish they do not want or need. I pretty much release everything except tuna, Yellows and Seabass, though I will occasionally keep lings, rockfish and bass for my friends.

Is it cruel to release fish? I don't think so. Look at it this way. Studies have shown that fish have much longer memories then they used to think and they have found that hook fish will avoid the same type of scenario that got them hooked for a year or more. It's like hey... your not hurting them your educating them... Besides it beats the alternative for the fish, no doubt if they had a vote......

I think the real issue with catch and release is mortality. If your not killing fish and letting it go to waste it's not irresponsable.

I think tail hooked T's probably die so I keep them unless the revive right away. I don't fish white seabass catch and release unless they are in less the 15 ft of water due to the swim bladder issues. Striped bass, yellows, tuna, halibut calicos etc.... I think they all release well as long as you don't handle them, and screw up their slime layer, so I have no problem letting them go.

Rockfish, protected fish, fish that are undersized.... you do what you can, I drop my rockfish back down with a sink rig but who knows if they survive.

Bottom line I think this is a common sense thing. If you are catching yellows all day long, and releasing them... more power to you. The only issue I have with that scenario is if I'm not there to catch them with you.

Just my take though, Jim